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Hello,

Does somebody know how far the progress is of the C version of the A-10? And are their allready new pictures of the plane?

Salute
Dutchy

ps. Dice-Man, the patch is really great, thanks.

Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)

_________________
73-1664

Dutchy, without going into detail the A-10C is still “on track” but, no new publicly releasable photos.

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dutchy, without going into detail the A-10C is still “on track” but, no new publicly releasable photos.

Ugly But Well Hung
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Got to see a "C" model last week in person....talk about a change...pictures do it no justice....sit an A model next to it & a monkey could tell the difference <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> ok...maybe not...but the cockpit was cool....

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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Okay thanks guys. I thought there was a little diffence outside the A and C version.

Salute
Dutchy

Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)

_________________
73-1664

The only way to tell an A from a C externaly is the weapons pylons, and you would have to really know your pylons to tell! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Okay thanks guys. I thought there was a little diffence outside the A and C version.

Salute
Dutchy

Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)
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There isn't...I was being a smart a**, which is why I put mr <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> at the end...

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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I thought externally, the "C" model was missing the vent covers on the left side of the nose near the ladder door?

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I thought externally, the "C" model was missing the vent covers on the left side of the nose near the ladder door?

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The reverce scoop removel is part of the IFFCC upgrade not the PE mod.

Ugly But Well Hung

OK, I'm confused. I thought the IFFCC program goes hand in hand with the PE upgrade? i.e. you can't have one without the other.

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<b>OK, I'm confused.</b> I thought the IFFCC program goes hand in hand with the PE upgrade? i.e. you can't have one without the other.

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Hehe it's easy to get confused when you talk about all the programs happening on the A-10 these days!

IFFCC does go hand in hand with PE <b>but</b> IFFCC is a "stand-alone" mod which add capibilities to the Hawg <b>today</b> and could remain on the aircraft even <b>if</b> something happen to PE. Yes the IFFCC mod is needed for PE <b>but</b> PE is not needed to make the IFFCC upgrade a viable mod in itself. Clear as mud?? <img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung

So does the PE upgrade alone turn an "A" model into a "C" or does the IFFCC need to be added also to make it a "C" jet?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>So does the PE upgrade alone turn an "A" model into a "C" or does the IFFCC need to be added also to make it a "C" jet? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

You can't have PE without the IFFCC mod but you can have IFFCC without PE. Think of it this way; you have a computer game you want to install but it requires 512Mb of RAM, you only have 256Mb. Before installing the game, you have to install more RAM but you don't HAVE to install the game, your computer still works fine, even better in most cases. So in answer to your question, the only thing that makes an "A" model a "C" is PE and the only way you install PE is to have the IFFCC mod so I guess the answer is "yes", IFFCC must be added to make it a "C" model. Don't know if that makes sense to you.

OC

Thanks Chief, good way to explain it.

Ugly But Well Hung

Dice, Chief, thanks for the explanations. From what I understand then, each program is free standing but they ultimately complement each other and combined, they create a "C" model A-10.

So this creates another question (I know, I know, you're thinking great!). Because IFFCC and PE go hand in hand to create a "C" model, then all "C" models can be physically distinguished by the absence of the vent covers near the ladder door. Would you guys agree?

Kinda sounds like a geometric proof at this point, huh?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Dice, Chief, thanks for the explanations. From what I understand then, each program is free standing but they ultimately complement each other and combined, they create a "C" model A-10.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes, they will integrate to become an A-10C. Not to throw gas on the debate but there are a number of other LURs, like the EGI, which will also have to be moded before the aircraft becomes an A-10C. PE is an integration of all the avionics in the A-10.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>So this creates another question (I know, I know, you're thinking great!). Because IFFCC and PE go hand in hand to create a "C" model, then all "C" models can be physically distinguished by the absence of the vent covers near the ladder door. Would you guys agree?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
That will be true <b>after</b> all the aircraft are PE moded but, because IFFCC is a stand-alone mod and the fleet is getting this mod today, just because they are missing the scoops doesn’t mean it’s an A-10C. What I’m trying to say is, if you see an A-10 on the ramp today and it doesn’t have the scoops then, is it an A-10C or, is it just an aircraft that has the stand-alone IFFCC mod?


Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Because IFFCC and PE go hand in hand to create a "C" model, then all "C" models can be physically distinguished by the absence of the vent covers near the ladder door. Would you guys agree?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Nope, can't agree. The "vent cover" (not what it actually is but not the place to discuss it) has been removed from a lot of A-10's but there's only a few "C" models out there. There are only two ways to distinguish a "C" from an "A" externally. The first is to be very very good with what the pylons look like (I had to be shown the difference) and the second is to read the data stencil on the side of the aircraft. Other than that, put an "A" and a "C" side by side, you'll not see any difference.

OC

Just to be technically accurate there are <b>no</b> A-10C model aircraft in the inventory today. PE is still in the DT&E stage and all the aircraft moded are working under a T-2 mod so are technically still A-10As. Until kit-proof and the frist <b>production</b> aircraft rolls through the PE line, there are no A-10C aircraft. Chief, the data plates and stencils will not be changed until that first aircraft.

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>the data plates and stencils will not be changed until that first aircraft. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Nice little factoid Dice, thanks.

OC

I hope there are never any A-10C's on the ramp. I think it was a huge mistake to make an MDS change over a couple of displays in the cockpit and some wiring in the wings. The motors are the same, the wings are the same, the flight characteristics are the same, it's the same airplane with new displays in the cockpit. It will be a huge can of worms when they try to field it as a new MDS. We should have stuck to a block cycle change instead of a whole new model number. We have started down a path we know not where it leads.

Coach

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>It will be a huge can of worms when they try to field it as a new MDS<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
I don't understand. While I agree, Coach, that it makes no sense to call it an A-10C, what kind of problems can this cause?
Do you think this will only make it more difficult to get more mods done in the future, because Congress would be like 'Oh, it's already an A-10C, it's advanced enough, you don't need more funding'?

They say that the only two things certain in life are death and taxes. I prefer them in that order.

Bump.
Anybody have an opinion as to why it is a bad thing to rename it to a C model?


They say that the only two things certain in life are death and taxes. I prefer them in that order.

Sorry it took so long.

In my opinion, it was bad to rename to the C-model because it establishes another MDS, another program. Now you have T.O.s, training, assignments, etc. If you use the F-16 as an example, the only differences between the Blk-30, 40 and 50's is almost all in the cockpit, the airframes are almost identical. They only went from F-16A to F-16C when the substantially redesigned the airframe.

And now, because of funding and technology issues, we may not get what they are now calling the A-10C, it may be something different. Does that mean everytime we make a requirements change to the design we make a new model of the jet?

My position is if we significantly change the basic aircraft (new motors for example), then let's do an MDS change. Otherwise, stick with the block cycle change for software and small hardware changes.

Coach

Mine meaning about rename the A-10a version to A-10c version is that there is allready an B version (twoseater at Edwards afb).
Mostly you see the versions as A (single) B(two-seater) C (single) D(two-seater) etc etc. How newer the plane is modified how further in the alphabeth in order of single and two-seater.
In Europe the F-16's has an MidLife Update. You can see that at their names. First their was only "F-16a or F-16b" now you see in magazines this line "F-16a mlu or F-16b mlu". Maybe that was a better name for the A-10 to call it A-10a mlu (midlife update).

Salute
Dutchy

Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)

_________________
73-1664

I believe there are (or maybe was) enough changes to warrent a model roll IE 4&8 fuel stations to only name one. Also if things go as planned (which I doubt) this will (would have) been a good opportunity to "clean-up" a lot of legacy issues with T.O.s, WUC, and other items which were not funded with PE dollars.

Things have changed a lot in both design and program management in the past 3 years so, is a model roll still a good idea...I don't know.

Ugly But Well Hung