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Stupid question I gotta ask. With the A-10's being in Europe for so long, has there ever been one sent to a Tiger Meet ?

"By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a peerage or Westminster Abbey !" Nelson the Immortal Memory

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YGBSM !

Not stupid at all, the Panthers sent a couple to the 2002 Tiger Meet at Beja, Portugal, not flying though, just as observers and ground participants. They have also turned up at a few others, usually at the end for a day or two as guests.

I just returned from the Tiger Meet Of The Americas at Mountain Home and the talk there was they really want the 23rd on board for the next one in 2007. Are there any 23rd guys here who want more info? Just PM me if you do.

Cheers,
Kev

Here's the Tiger F-15E at Mountain Home:

<img src="http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/kevinjackson/TMOTA/TMOTA051.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Would love to see one of the 23rd aircraft dressed-up for tiger meet! <img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung

Thats a Great Picture! ,I also loved the F-4 and F-5's when they had the tiger meet paint!


Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

The Flying Tigers wear their Tiger Colors everyday, 24/7. They don't need a sorry excuse to paint aircraft to show their "tiger pride". What a complete waste of resources in this current environment. Sort of like painting an A-10 with a lightning bolt.

Coach

Coach, I'll be sure to pass on your thoughts to the 391st, 79th, 120th and Canadian maintainers who took great pride in putting their own time and money into showing off their jets. Nobody forces this on anyone, it's a competition that keeps a spirit alive in a world where ever-shrinking budgets and short-sighted people try to kill traditions.

Hell, Hawgsmoke is a waste of money as well then! Why fly pilots all the way from Korea, Alaska and Germany just to fly a couple of missions? Normally the pilots get all the fun, this is a chance to include the maintainers, and it does not cost the tax payer anything. The 25 to 30 aircraft LFEs are excellent training, with everything from tankers to an E-3 also taking part so don't just think it's about putting stripes on a jet and drinking beer.

Squadron competitions have made the AF what it is today so don't knock it when units make an effort despite all their other commitments. The 23rd would gain a lot by participating, much more than the Tiger Meet would by having them along.

Sorry to rant, but I just spent a week with these guys and you are totally wrong!

A good defence of the 'Tiger' tradition there Gunsmoke.
As for the SP 'Panthers' taking part in a Tiger Meet, I have always thought of a tiger as a stripey animal with whom it is unwise to be trapped in an alley, a Panther is.......well, not a tiger so I don't know how.....much as I love the 81st FS......they can participate in a Tiger Meet....just me being a pedant.
The 23FG need only show up at a meet as they are, without wasting cans of orange and white paint.......they are <i>the</i> tigers.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Sort of like painting an A-10 with a lightning bolt. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Does that mean Coach that if you get posted to Spang, they'll lose the tail-fin bolts along with the already departed 'Panther heads'?



Edited by - Bacon Bits on Nov 13 2005 1:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Sort of like painting an A-10 with a lightning bolt. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I think your perspective may be a little off Coach. The lightning bolt has nothing to do with the A-10 and everything to do with unit history. The black lightning bolt goes back to Chenault and the Flying Tigers when the unit was part of his command and was known as the Black Lightning squadron (see TOPIC_ID=9810) . As far as resouces, the total cost was something less than $200, not exactly an expensive paint job.

OC

I agree, we have lost way to many traditions as it is.

Ugly But Well Hung

*COUGH* Door/Nose Art *Cough*
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You might be a "Bulldog" if: You bend over and grab your ankles when you hear: "EXERCISE, EXERCISE, EXERCISE!"

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Few years ago I was at Kleine Brogel for a Tiger Meet. The Panthers flew over with four of their planes. For me the Highlight of the day.
But that is in Europe if they go for TM in USA i don't know.

Salute
Dutchy


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(47FS Barksdale afb)

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
and it does not cost the tax payer anything.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Gunsmoke,

I'm not familiar with the Tiger Meet so I don't know if the pilots receive any valuable training or not. However, to say that it doesn’t cost the taxpayers is being either uninformed or just irresponsible. I mean look at the picture of the F-15 you posted. Who paid for the painting and repainting of that aircraft? Not just the materials, but also the man-hours and equipment involved. It had to come from somewhere and unfortunately, it was probably money allocated for some other purpose such as the flying hour program or squadron operating funds, all of which is provide by taxpayers money.

I agree with Coach on this one

“Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off” - Gen. Colin Powell


capche-capche da - we go forward together

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All I can say is, all work and no play makes Horatio a very dull Hawg! <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung

I have been to a NATO Tiger meet before. Its a good time and a long standing tradition. Its great to meet guys from different countries that share the same profession as you. I'm afraid the government wastes alot more money than just some paint and man hours for something like the Tiger meet. Anyone who saw the gunsmoke comps in the 80's can attest to that!

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Gravity....its not just a good idea, its the law.

There was nowt wrong with Gunsmoke 91<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

A fair point Lil Hitler and one that deserves a little explanation from my 'observer' point of view as an aviation journalist (not usmilobserver though!, please don't bunch me in with that guy, Dice can hopefully vouch for my credentials).

The actual flying training comes out of the units individual flying hour program, much like at Hawgsmoke. They had three LFE missions, with German Tornados, Canadian CF-18s, Guard and AD F-16s, F-15Es, two Reserve KC-135s and a NATO E-3 all over the wide open spaces of Idaho. Using the MO Weapons Range, complete with targets and effective ground threats provided by the 366th FW.

All the subsidiery costs are born by the squadrons funds, mostly the Snacko money. The stripes on the F-15E are vinyl and would have been removed after the Tiger Meet finished. The rest of the markings, apart from the speedbarke are in chalk, applied by Ssgt Andrew Johnson and his fellow crew chiefs/maintainers. He took eight hours to draw each tiger head. He was given permission to carry out some of the work during his duty hours but I personnally think that's a bargain in terms of squadron morale. That picture was taken on a Sunday afternoon, after they had finished the markings, they were not being paid to be there and could of easily just spent the day playing golf.

I happen to think it is both a great way of units tailoring their individual training needs in a large concentration of force, without the pressure of a Red Flag, and a great way to get ALL the units support and maintenance people to feel a part of the team. I've attended all the American and Canadian Tiger Meets, writing articles for magazines such as AFM, Flug Revue and Combat Aircraft and in my experience I can only see them being a good thing. I'd love to see the 23rd Hawgs involved in a CSAR scenario at the next TMOTA at Shaw AFB, I really hope they realise the benefits of attending.

I think it is short sighted to criticize without knowing all the facts. By all means ask questions of the purpose and meaning of the exercise but don't just write it off as pointless and a waste of money because it isn't imho.

Regards,
Kevin

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
A fair point Lil Hitler and one that deserves a little explanation from my 'observer' point of view as an aviation journalist (not usmilobserver though!, please don't bunch me in with that guy, Dice can hopefully vouch for my credentials).

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I can and you are what you say you are, an aviation journalist and a true supporter of the A-10, top-notch in my book.

Ugly But Well Hung

His photographs aren't bad either<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style6,Warthog-spc-Territory.png" border=0>