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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2005, 20:21 
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PS...try to find that on eBay.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2005, 22:40 
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Ahhhhhhh...brown was one of the colors. My AFET counterpart at D-M has one like mine only in brown.
Whatever, I'm done with this.
db

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2005, 04:39 
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Very interesting thread, MR. Mister A-10 (Joel) heard a lot about you from "Zepp" at ACC. BTW there were (are) brown A-10 ties, I have one.

Ugly But Well Hung


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2005, 14:44 
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Seems like everyone got brown ties but me? Musta sold out of the brown and sent me red & blue ones. Glad to see DB still has his, not a drool stain on it either.


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2005, 18:51 
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Hi All
When i get all my stuff together i'll send in some pic's of my A-10 item's .. I love collecting MFG. desk models i have about 30 A-10's
most are the single seat euro-one camo style. I also have afew rare one's too.. So if you guys ever want to let some go !!!! let me know
i'll make you a good offer.. Allways looking for A-10 item's
anybody know where i can get an ACE'S 2 seat ????? I have 3 1E-9'S
just need a newer one for my collection..
Thanks Dana
long live the hog <img src=newicons/icon_hog.gif border=0 align=middle>.................................

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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2005, 16:32 
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Hi Dana, nice to see you still drop-by the forums and WOW, sounds like you have quite a collection of A-10 models and "stuff".

Here's a shot of my A-10 ties including the brown one. I was given the brown and one of the blue ties (with more than one A-10s on it) by rcsicence, I got the other blue one off EBay

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/web_tie.jpg" border=0>

Ugly But Well Hung


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2005, 20:09 
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Great pics! Do you have any original A-9/A-10 patches? I'd really like to see some of those pics if you have any?
Please, Please, Please!!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>


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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2006, 08:11 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Regarding the N/AW A-10's turning ability as compared to the A-10A: I beleive I've read that FRC over-engineered the vertical stabilizers and made them too tall. There was concern that the added mass and "windage" of the added cockpit and fairing would adversely affect directional stability, so the vertical stabilizers were elongated 20". The thinking later was that much less was needed, about 6"-8", which would have reduced whatever deficiency in turning ability to minimal compared to the A-10A.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

This was kind of true. One of the guys that had influence on the configuration, Gordon Rosenthal was his name, had a reputation for insisting on big vertical tails. It must have been because of some bad experience with earlier designs (F-105's?). The N/AW A-10 prototype reflected his influence, I think. It was revealed in flight test that the long extensions were overkill, but they looked good in my opinion. The A-10B Combat Ready Trainer (never built but fully engineered) had shorter fins.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There is an excellent article in the December issue of Air Power magazine about the two seat A-10. They make a comment in the article that I'll throw out to muddy the water. The N/AW and the A-10B were two different airplanes. When N/AW didn't sell, Fairchild tried to sell a stripped down version as a trainer that they called the A-10B.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I'll go read the article, but I know this is true too. The A-10B was also known as the combat ready trainer. It had no different sensors than the A-10A. It did have some odd-ball features like side opening canopies for a while but some escape system criticisms forced a change to a long F-14 looking single canopy. The A-10B was funded by the government, so it was not a company R&D effort like the N/AW. It was much more than a concept because most of the engineering drawings were released for manufacture. It was killed at the time a decision for production had to be made. The case for a trainer was apparently too weak.


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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2006, 16:41 
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I was always under the impression that there was never an A-10B. The N/AW two seat version was a YA-10 that was modified.

If so, why are we calling the PE-modified A-10A an A-10C? Shouldn't it really be a "B" (if we were to change the MDS at all)?

Coach


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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2006, 07:26 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I was always under the impression that there was never an A-10B.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

The A-10B was the combat ready trainer. I think it was officially designated so. It just never made it to production.

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2006, 15:09 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
When the General in charge of requirements asked me how big a plug we had to put in the fuselage to make it a two seater, I said none. All we do is change the canopy, add a seat, and move the avionics to bays forward of the tail.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

..and voila, ve have zee tandem A-10. Well, there was some other expertise involved. The (side opening) canopies, ejection seat, flight controls, sensors, consoles and panels had to be integrated without screwing up the structure and the balance. Wind tunnel (including engine/airframe compatitibility) and escape system tests were required too. It wasn't especially difficult, but it took time and money, and went precisely nowhere. It functioned OK, that's all I care about...and it made work for the working man. Let's not forget the best part.

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2006, 17:48 
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What has happened to Mr A-10? He hasn't been around much lately/

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2006, 18:04 
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He hasnt won the bid on the A10B documents yet... therefore he has no input <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2006, 13:50 
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Well since this Homo hasn't spoken. (we love ya anyways Mr. A-10)

I spoke with one of my friends at TPS last night on the Phone that was a test Manager on the NAW "Whale". I was a student, Honor Grad and Instructor there in the 90’s. He referred me to his article that will come out in a publication for February 06.

This is an article He wrote for the Magazine on the YA-10B.

Feb 06 Volume 36 no. 2
www.wingsairpower.com
"The YA-10B & Me" by Gary Aldrich


<i> Welcome to the second edition of "HOT MIKE", the newest WINGS & AIRPOWER feature, that puts you in the cockpit of some of the worlds greatest, and most interesting airplanes. In our January 2006 issue of AIRPOWER, we featured a story on Fairchild Republic's last grasp at an operational combat airplane-the two seat A-10, latter officially designated as the YA-10B. Although that program was unsuccessful in resurrecting A-10 production, the air force later utilized the machine for further development of the Warthogs Close Air Support and fighter missions. Here now is a first hand account by the Air Force flight test engineer who saw aviation history unfolding as he flew this unique airplane in the early-1980’s </i>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> My involvement with the A-10 Program and the two seater in particular began with a phone call from a Major Charlie Longnecker in March of 1983. I had just graduated from the Air Force test pilot School at Edwards AFB and was working on the F-16XL Test Force when Charlie asked me if I wanted to be the Chief Engineer at the A-10 Combined Test Force (CTF). I was always impressed with the A-10, and this was a way for me to get close to that airplane, so I started working on a program called " Single Seat night Attack" .

Our Objective was to determine the workload associated with a single pilot flying Low-level at night or in bad weather using a LANTIRN system (Low-Altitude navigation and targeting Infra-Red for Night) for both navigation and targeting against the perceived threat at the time, which was the Soviet presence across the Fulda Gap in Central Europe.

The Air Force decided to reconfigure the single YA-10B, which had been evaluated as a two-seat trainer and "Weaponized" attack airplane with no success. They would use this airplane as a flying "test bed" for battlefield workload analysis. We used a captive TGM-65B Maverick Missile mounted on the right wing, with FLIR (Forward-Looking Infra-red) and a pod mounted radar on board, and put a pilot in the front seat that was instrumented in order to monitor his physiological functions. He would fly representative low level missions at night initially in the Edwards' area, and there would be a safety pilot in the rear seat whose job was to basically keep the airplane from hitting the ground.

On of the interesting early results that we found was that you could correlate actual height above ground to the pilot's heartbeat. When he went below 500 Ft. his heart rate would start to march up in an inverse relationship to the altitude-the lower the altitude, the higher the heart rate. You could actually tell what altitude he was flying by looking at his heart rate on the monitor! It was very intense workload, especially trying to deploy weapons, and one pilot actually became physically ill upon deplaning after a test mission due to the stress of flying low-level on a dark moonless night.

We also tried to get weather that more closely represented the European environment by taking the airplane up to Fairchild AFB in Spokane, Washington in December 1983. With three pilots and two Airplanes - one sing seat A-10 and the two-seater which we called "Whale" - we flew against the Army in training up there in very poor weather, and discovered limitations in the FLIR system. We'd come rolling in on a target looking for the hot Infrared signature and see something and then lock it up from maybe 4 or 5 miles away. Then we'd press on to the point where we'd have to commit to a simulated launch which was usually about a mile away when suddenly our "target" would grow four legs and turn out to be a cow! We probably blew away more cows in the area of Ft. hood Washington than simulated commies (these are electronically simulated kills here folks. No cows were harmed in the making of this article. -Ed.)

This was probably due to the fact that between the rain attenuation of the heat signature in the FLIR and trying to hand it off to the IR Maverick, you were literally on top of the target before you could actually get the weapon off. Keep in mind were talking about technology that is now 25 years old at this point. and IR technology has certainly been improved since then, but some of the things we did in this program could be considered the impetus for the upgrades and improvements that led to the A-10's operational success in Desert Storm. For one thing, we showed that with upgrades such as an INS (Inertial Navigation System) and a HUD (Heads-up Display), the airplane could become a very effective day fighter. A lot that we learned in this Program such as Human factors and cockpit "Switchology" was probably cross-flowed into the F-16C and later models as well.

One thing that was really great about the YA-10B was all the room we had in the cockpit. It had dual controls and was very easy to fly - kind of like flying a big Cessna, actually. It was a very speed-stable airplane, and it was a very smooth ride flying at low level. It would pull 4G's at 250 knots, and their wasn’t any other fighter in the Air Force inventory that could do that. Even though the only defense mechanism we had on the airplane was its 30mm gun at the time, A-10 pilots were confident that they could turn inside an adversary, point the gun and lob a few one-pound shells at him, and he'd probably go somewhere else. If there's anything that can turn inside an A-10, however it's a helicopter, and those were very serious threats until the Air national Guard guys came up with the idea of putting AIM-9 Sidewinders on the plane.

Overall, the YA-10B was a joy to fly. It had great control response, and could do low-speed aerobatics with its big straight wing. You could even loop it in 1,000 ft. - almost like a glider!

<i> Gary Aldrich retired from the Air Force as Lt. Colonel in 1996, and currently works as a civilian instructor contracted to the USAF Test Pilot School at Edwards AFB, CA. He is president of the local EAA chapter, and can be found on weekends at the controls of his immaculate Cessna 180, which he proudly named "The Fightin' Skywagon.'</i>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>


"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

Edited by - thebigthug on Jan 11 2006 12:52 PM

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2006, 16:13 
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I don't remember Lt. Col Aldrich but I wasn't paying that much attention to the flight test. I never heard the term "whale" either, but again, I was not in a position to hear it. The story does remind me of the SSNA program (a follow-on to the N/AW) which was not well liked by my circle of engineers. We thought it was only getting data that was to be used for Lantirn equipped Lawn Darts anyway. We did not like Lawn Darts taking over Close Air Support, as you can imagine. We did not like Lantirn either, for that matter. It was many years late and the projected cost for the two pods was larger than a whole A-10 at the time. I guess you could say we were envious of the money they were getting. I still think that if the money was spent on A-10 night attack development, it would have been better. In the end, both the facility that made Lantirns and A-10's were shut down. They made a pantload of Lantirns, but was it considered a success? The facility in Orlando where they were doing the Lantirns is now an information technology center for LockMart and the Fairchild works on LI is now the site of a multiplex theater and Home Depot.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>For one thing, we showed that with upgrades such as an INS (Inertial Navigation System) and a HUD (Heads-up Display), the airplane could become a very effective day fighter. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Of course he means an improved HUD. All A-10s have HUDs.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> and those were very serious threats until the Air national Guard guys came up with the idea of putting AIM-9 Sidewinders on the plane.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Many organizations were interested in the AIM-9 armament upgrade. The National Guard was successful in getting the money to do it. Go figure?



Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

Edited by - a10stress on Jan 11 2006 3:14 PM

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2006, 18:04 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...and the Fairchild works on LI is now the site of a multiplex theater and Home Depot. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Just a few minutes from where I grew up. I remember when they tore all those buildings down. I'm not sure which was sadder, seeing them sitting abandonded for all those years prior to demolition, or the demolition.

They say that the only two things certain in life are death and taxes. I prefer them in that order.


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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2006, 20:36 
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Here's a Conspiracy!

Guess some genius in the pentagon decided "hey, since were real fucking good at making divots verticly, lets see if we can get a 16 in the side of a mountain..an A-10 would never penetrate!


Hey somebody had to justify the funding... <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

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