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End of one era and the start of a new.

The 188th FW are giving up their 17 F-16s after flying them for 18 years from Fort Smith Regional Airport. The 'Flying Razorbacks' are beginning a new mission and converting to A-10 Thunderbolt II. 18 of which are due to arrive from Massachusetts ANG's 104th FW, currently based out of Barnes AFB in Westfield.

The change is part of the realignment announced in August 2005 by the Base Realignment and Closure Commission (BRAC). The original intention was to do away with the 188th, but fierce representation by local state, federal & military officials changed the commissions mind. This change of heart pathed the way for the A-10 mission to proceed.

Col. Kevin Wear, commander of the 188th was quoted as saying 'the departure was historic because it heralded the end of one mission and the beginning of the next'.

The F-16s are scheduled to flow out beginning in October, about two or three a month, through April of next year, at which time the first of our A-10s will arrive on the base to begin our mission', Wear said. Only 7 of the F-16s are due to go to Fresno to join the 144th, the rest will be retired from active duty.



Hawg Wild
Razorback

How many Hog Guys got jobs at Ft Smith? How good do you think they will be?

It will be at least five years before they even have a clue. If then.

Coach

Coach, from what I know and hear is that everyone in the unit that is employed full time will still be there and possibly could gain a few more full time positions with this conversion.

I have to disagree on about us not having a clue though, those that are having to go back to school (i.e. pilots/maintainers)are ready and very capable of this new mission.
In fact some of our members are former hog drivers and maintainers and have been instrumental in preparing the wing in knowing what to expect.

We have been doing the air to mud, CSAR and TST type missions for some time now just this time it will be in a different airframe.

Hawg Wild
The Flying Razorbacks

Edited by - HawgWild on Oct 19 2006 19:17

Edited by - HawgWild on Oct 19 2006 19:21

We have been doing the air to mud, CSAR and TST type missions for some time now just this time it will be in a different airframe.

<i></i>

Whatever...

Mark the tapes and we'll see you in five years.

From what I have heard, you have three Hog Drivers in your unit...not much to build on.

Coach

Coach I know a couple of our pilots are heading down to Ft Smith. One of our younger pilots whos dad was a three star I believe and an a-10 pilot also, allready has a job there. he is from the Dallas area and just wants to go back. We have a couple of maintaners that would like to go, myself included. However as usual, we find ourselves facing the question wether we want to uproot our families and leave our parents that are getting older etc etc etc. I think it would take a real strong offer of AGR slots that are Master slots to get anyone to really strongly consider leaving. It really is tempting because as you are well aware hawg maintaners are almost pathalogically loyal to the airframe. But Arkansas is not just a days trip home if you ever needed to come back.
How wil they do ? I am not a pilot, but I know this with al my being; Viper pilots have a real chip on their shoulders when it comes to A-10 types and often act as though it is an easy step down to fill our shoes. I think they are in for a big surprise. I hate doind this but I am going to say it. Anyone who thinks that they are going to fill the shoes of the Barnestormers and 28 years of A-10 experience after a couple years of flying Hawgs, they are smoking crack. When they have the SpecOps community begging them to go on deployments with them, and when their Crew Chiefs and Weapons guys launch and recover under the goggles and push their maintenance guys to non standard tasks in obscure conditions, then I'll say their making headway.

"By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a peerage or Westminster Abbey !" Nelson the Immortal Memory

_________________
YGBSM !

Billy like I told you, Move the WHOLE family BRO!
They could live "REAL GOOD" there compared on what the prices you deal with up there.
No cold winters,NO HIGH HEATING BILLS!yes maybe high cooling bills but it gets hot up there too.

So like you said "It has PRO's and CON'S" If it were me,and being taken off of A-10's I'd try for a T/A slot or AIRLIFT (probably just C-21's and C-23's ) around there.
Good Civiy job stuff.

But It would be hard to give it up after all your time on one airframe and the CAT.

It just SUCKS

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We have been doing the air to mud, CSAR and TST type missions for some time now just this time it will be in a different airframe.

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HawgStruck, don't get your hackles up over what Coach is saying. Fact is, the CSAR mission in the Hawg is different from what the Viper does. The attitude that "hell, we can do that" is good, to a point. I knew..note the past tense..a pilot who came to the A-10 world from a high performance airframe with that attitude. I'm sure in the last seconds of his life he figured out the old girl will bite if she's mistreated.

It's just not possible to replace almost 30 years experience with an airframe. The units that first converted to the A-10 back when I had blond hair, and a lot more of it, have evolved with the airframe. They've developed procedures from both the Op's and maintenance side that initially weren't even in the books. The maintainers can leave the shop for a red-ball with the right part in their hands and the drivers can put a munition on target without depleting the LOX bottle. Simply stated, there's no substitute for experience.

Your unit lobbied long and hard to get the Hawg and now that there's three flavors of the A-10 (the "A", the "Plus" and the "C")it's an opportunity for your unit to make a name. Just remember, it's not "just a different airframe", it's a different world.

OC

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints

Yeah that what I tried to say. I just didnt say it so eloquently.

"By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a peerage or Westminster Abbey !" Nelson the Immortal Memory

_________________
YGBSM !

Yeah but I still liked yours better Bill<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/icon_hog.gif border=0 align=middle>

"GLAD TO HAVE BEEN THERE AND HAVE BEEN PROUD TO HAVE SERVERED"

I'm "Old School" HAWG keeper, I saw first hand what an A-10 can take as far as BATTLE DAMAGE, I'm not talking "KILLER CHICKS" KC hawg either.
They can take alot more and in the right hands She'll bring back the pilot.
I saw a LawnDart after a raid on "B-TOWN" in 91 took "1" pc of "Flak" and it had taken out alot of the VIPERS systems and by the time the Pilot got her to KFIA the EPU was failing and He landed that Viper as the engine finally "QUIT".
God was HIS COPILOT.

Both aircraft have there Good points, but there not even "Close" as far as anything.I'm glad you have some "RETREADS" down there because you'll need them.
They crossed trained us in 90-91 to "Hot-pit and Arm" Lawn Darts but that was it and that was enough to learn.

But a 30 yr Hog driver couldnt walk over to an F-16 and put her threw her moves like a 5 yr F-16 driver could and the same is true the other way a 30 yr F-16 driver wont make the Hog do her thing like a 5 yr A-10 driver can.

Experiance ,plus Maintance is going to have "ONE HELL'VA" Learning cruve.
7 levels will go back to square one again etc...,they'll have major problems which they'll be on the phone with other A-10 units asking questions just like these guys getting Snoopy's will.
It'll be a shock to some when a E-4 or E-5 is showing E-6 &E-7'S how to fix a Bird and they have the "RED X" orders.

But in the end it can be done in time and training MUDD is an example of Pilots plus some of the Old CrewDawgs are of Doing both A-10 and F-16.

If I was running this "BRAC" TRANSITION" I'd be cutting orders for half of the Mass Guys to Show the ARK Boys how to fix those new birds. Manning assist as they use to call it because sitting in class or on a training bird cant take the place of Folks who have taken care of a Hawg during peace time or from a BARE BONE strip in the SANDBOX.
That takes years of experiance.

So yes is it "My Jet is better than yours" Yes, but thats a Good thing because if a Pilot or CrewChief doesnt feel that way about the aircraft their flying or working on they need a New Job.

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

This is a conversation that can go on forever, but let me just say this: this isn't about which airplane is better or who has the best pilots. The world just changed for everyone in the 188 FW. It has fundamentally shifted and nobody there has admitted it yet.

Tell one of your pilots to fly around at 300 knots with his radar off in the ACM mission. See what he says. Ask him how many times he has done CSAR under a 1500ft ceiling? TST is not CAS, CAS is always time sensitive. How mny times have you hit CAS targets that weren't already in your nav system?

Look at the history of the A-10 in the Guard. Baltimore, Barnes and Bradley all got the Hog pretty much the same time as the actives...early '80s. Each of those units, at various times, have made conscious and determined efforts to improve their units by hiring experienced operators and maintainers with the reputation and leadership to take the unit to the next level. And all these units have been successful doing that. I would say that Barnes is probably the most combat-capable A-10 unit on the planet right now. But it hasn't always been that way, and didn't get that way by chance.

Now look at Battle Creek and Boise, both late converts to the A-10. Neither of them are "leader" units in the Hog community. Boise still has F-4 guys in leadership positions, same as BC and A-37s. Neither will improve until they make a strategic plan to do so. Mediocre Guard units get that way and stay that way because of mediocre leadership. It easy to be mediocre, just hire guys who come to you and all have to be from that state, and promise they won't move, etc, etc, etc. (Sorry if I have pissed anyone off with this one, but it's my opinion)

If 188 FW wants to get up on the step, they need to hire Hog experience now and put them in leadership positions, both ops and maintenance. If you are going to do this by OJT, then five years is a minimum, more like ten, before you have it figured out. From what I see, it will be at least ten. Over 80% of the current pilots are transitioning, so that doesn't leave much room for new blood. And because of BRAC, there is a lot of Hog experience on the market.

Hope I'm wrong...

Coach

Well said Coach..and too true.

OC

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints

So let me get this straight, BRAC comes along and switches F-15s to Barnes and Hawgs to Fort Smith, at the same time causing major upheaval for three strong units as they change missions and weapons systems. This will cost the taxpayer much $$$ without giving any gains, rather major setbacks for a few years until these units bed-down.

How did that happen? Would it not have made sense to send the F-15s to Arkansas and leave the A-10s where there are?

Whoever signed that one off did a fine job!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Would it not have made sense to send the F-15s to Arkansas and leave the A-10s where there are?

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why only guess is they needed the fighters for alerts. Granted they have F-16's at NJ and VT, but maybe wanted them closer to Boston after 9/11?

<img src="http://www.x-plane.org/home/topgun/sigs/A10logo.jpg" border=0>

http://topgunphotography.net/index.htm

_________________
If it Flys, shoot it

We understand entirely about not having the A-10 experience and we know that we have big shoes to fill.
We have pilots/maintainers in training now and they have the desire to succeed and to make this new mission work. The A-10 mission is fast becoming our life and everyone is highly motivated for it.

When the BRAC commision visited our base in the summer of '05 they had the oppurtunity to see first hand our mission capabilities and the missions that we perform and have performed in the joint world to include the special ops community. Everything was out in the open for them to see, and one of the BRAC commission members made the comment live on C-SPAN that the DoD had really missed the boat when it came to the 188th.

A-10's from both Barksdale and Whiteman are a common sight around our airspace in Western Arkansas and in the near future it will be even more so with Fort Smith A-10's.

A fact of life for us is that we have always been perceived and labeled the underdogs and that in itself makes us that more detemined to succeed.


Hawg Wild
The Flying Razorbacks

Hawgwild, I for one am looking forward to the new unit, it's not like the A-10 hasn't moved before and made it's home at a new base. let your guys know about my website and if you have anything PR wise you guys want to get posted let me know and I will be happy to help.

Visit my A-10 website at
http://www.warthogpen.com

Dice, we have a billboard up in FS that has a picture of a A-10 and our Razorback head on the tail stab stating "WE LOVE WARTHOGS". I have a small poster of it and I'll send a copy of that picture to you.

It looks great!!<b></b><b></b><b></b><u></u>

Hawg Wild
The Flying Razorbacks

Mass has two flying units, it was pretty much a given that if you have two flying units within your state you were probably going to lose one during BRAC.

The state side alert intercept is the only real mission left for the F-15A/C. The F-15’s needed to stay in the Northeast for Homeland security over flights.

Otis ANG on Cape Cod MA is geographically a better location for the alert mission than Barnes. One reason given for moving the 15’s is based upon the higher operations costs of maintaining Otis’s airfield because the costs are not shared with a civilian municipal/regional airport.

A-10’s moving to Ft. Smith and Selfridge are a direct result of too many block 25/30 F-16 units in the Guard that the USAF doesn’t want to pay for any more. The airframe moves and new missions that don’t seem to be logic are a result of lobbying done by States in an effort to save jobs.

There isn’t going to be a 1 for 1 replacement with the F-22 or F-35, which in turn will create a bigger shortage of iron in the Guard in the next ten years. If BRAC had decided to move F-15’s outside of the Northeast, it would have made more sense if they replaced the F-16’s at Fresno California ANG on the west coast, not anywhere in the middle of the country.

With or without PE, diet coke PE or just a plain A-10A, the Hog community will lose 28 years of maintenance and operational experience from the 104th and the 103rd. The next round of BRAC will retire the F-15 and give the ANG surveillance kites and weather balloons! Just my two cents good luck.

Kungfu




Edited by - kungfu on Oct 23 2006 13:49

+1



Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dice, we have a billboard up in FS that has a picture of a A-10 and our Razorback head on the tail stab stating "WE LOVE WARTHOGS". I have a small poster of it and I'll send a copy of that picture to you.

It looks great!!<b></b><b></b><b></b><u></u>

Hawg Wild
The Flying Razorbacks
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Thanks for the pic, looks like someone photshoped a Barksdale jet for the poster. Do you know if you guys plan on putting the "Razorback" on the tail of all your A-10s?

Visit my A-10 website at
http://www.warthogpen.com

come on dice, share the wealth!

_________________

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
come on dice, share the wealth!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

O'sorry......

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/razorbacks.jpg" border=0>

Visit my A-10 website at
http://www.warthogpen.com

That hog's head would look a lot better on the nacelles with the FS tailcode on the stab. Then again, I think Bradley's and Barnes' jets look good as they are now wearing CT and MA...

The picture is altered from who knows where and the billboard was a show of our communities support for our unit and getting the A-10s. The Razorback head will be somewhere on the A/C for sure.

Hawg Wild
The Flying Razorbacks

Its to bad there isnt a jet 188, because you could make it the flagship and have the WW II 'Ridge Runner' hawg on the nacelles. You guys are lucky cuz you got a cool mascot. We dont have a mascot, because a little guy flying around a bi-plane with a long scarf would look dumb on the tail of an A-10 for sure.

"By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a peerage or Westminster Abbey !" Nelson the Immortal Memory

_________________
YGBSM !