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Just looking for some history on this competition, for a discussion on another forum.

There is someone who is claiming the ANG held the first HAWGSMOKE back in 1995, and that it was an ANG-only competition; but as far as I have always believed, the inaugural HAWGSMOKE was in 2000 at the Alpena Combat Readiness Training Center in Michigan. It was hosted by the Michigan ANG 172nd FS from Battle Creek, and Col Cliff Latta of the 172nd is credited with initiating HAWGSMOKE.

But, this person claims the it took place after the Loadeo competition had finished in 1995, and he has an article quoting the "Hawgfather" who came up with the concept and why. He said this info was included with the 2000 Hawgsmoke briefing pack, and that the MD ANG have the win credited on their web site (http://www.mdang.ang.af.mil/STHQ/special_awards1.htm). But to add to the confusion, they show it under 1996, not 1995!

So, and interesting debate and one I was hoping to find more fodder for among the experts here...

Cheers! M2

there is waaaay too much bashing of Battle Creek and Michigan lately

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I had never heard of Hog Smoke before Cliffy set up the one in Michigan.

Coach

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there is waaaay too much bashing of Battle Creek and Michigan lately
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No bashing, just want to find out the ground truth here...

Cheers! M2

MM, I think the confusion comes from the name. Back before there was HAWGSMOKE, there was GUNSMOKE which involved a mix of airframes. Since only the top units competed, there was an ANG only competition in the A-10 world to find the best unit to compete in GUNSMOKE..and that competition was informally called Hog Smoke. The Air Force ended GUNSMOKE in 1997 which led to the creation of HAWGSMOKE in 2000. Everyone confused yet? I had to edit this to get it this far.

OC

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints

Edited by - old chief on Nov 10 2006 17:29

Ok, rather than edit my response yet again, here's the answer to the 1995/1996 question about the 175th. GUNSMOKE was held in odd years so the competition among the ANG units was held during the even years to allow the winning unit to hone their skills.

OC

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints

I'll be dang'd, learn something new every day...I got this from the guy...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/M2_patches/Hogsmoke_1995_page1.jpg" border=0>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/M2_patches/Hogsmoke_1995_page2.jpg" border=0>

Does anyone subscribe to the <i>Air Force Times</i>? If so, you may be able to search on the author's name (David Castellon) and get pics that accompanied the article. If so, please post them here...

Cheers! M2

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Ok, rather than edit my response yet again, here's the answer to the 1995/1996 question about the 175th. GUNSMOKE was held in odd years so the competition among the ANG units was held during the even years to allow the winning unit to hone their skills.

OC

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints
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The 104th TFS took part in Gunsmoke 95 at Nellis NV on 26-27/10/95, but they did not win.

shuck

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shuck

So Which unit (A-10) won at Gunsmoke right after the Gulfwar?
I'm pretty sure it was either a Guard or Reserve unit because it was an ESPN event sponored by BUDWISER(NO REALLY BUDWISER).

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

Baltimore was the overall champion and I think an A-10 pilot from Dicky Goober won Top Gun.

Coach

To add a little more fuel to the fire. Note the term "inaugural" when used in reference to the 2000 competition.

Hawgsmoke History
The original idea, by Hawgsmoke ‘Big Toe’ Col. Cliff Latta from the Michigan Air National Guards 172nd Fighter Squadron, was to inaugurate a biennial worldwide A-10 bombing /tactical gunnery competition as a replacement for the discontinued ‘Gunsmoke’ competition . Four-ship teams of airplanes and pilots from A-10 units around the globe would fly and compete for the honour of being the ‘Best of the Best’ in ground attack and target destruction. (Gunsmoke was the worldwide air-to-ground gunnery/bombing competition held at Nellis AFB that ended in 1995 primarily because it was cost-prohibitive for the participating units to fly their teams and ground crew out to Nevada, although it is set to return in 2005). The 172nd FS, from Battle Creek, hosted the inaugural Hawgsmoke 2000 at the remote Alpena Combat Readiness Training Center in northernmost Michigan. ‘Top Team’ honours went to the Connecticut ANG who subsequently hosted Hawgsmoke 2002 at the Fort Drum Forward Operating Location in New York State.

Led by LtCol. Macaulay, the Air Force Reserve Commands (AFRC) 47th Fighter Squadron team took the Al ‘Mud’ Moore trophy for ‘Top Overall A-10 Team’ at Hawgsmoke 2002, thereby earning the honour of hosting the 2004 event.

OC


Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints

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So Which unit (A-10) won at Gunsmoke right after the Gulfwar?
I'm pretty sure it was either a Guard or Reserve unit because it was an ESPN event sponored by BUDWISER(NO REALLY BUDWISER).

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!




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Baltimore took first place at Gunsmoke 91 with 8524 points

shuck

Edited by - shuck on Nov 12 2006 03:12

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shuck

Wasn't Col. Latta with Battle Creek when we were at Trapanni ? I think him and I had lunch together in Tasczar, Hungary when we were at the FOL.

"By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a peerage or Westminster Abbey !" Nelson the Immortal Memory

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YGBSM !

Ok I'll throw one in, How many of you remember "GUNPOWDER" or
"PowderPuff" as the team s called it.
I wish SPUD was on the board right now he was part of 85 Gunsmoke team and the first Competitions leading up to GUNSMOKE were called
GUNPOWDER" competitions.
I have pictures of the 85 team flying off the wing of a KC-10 which we were taking to NTC a total of 12 A-10's 6 on each wing over the Plains.

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Ok I'll throw one in, How many of you remember "GUNPOWDER" or
"PowderPuff" as the team s called it.
I wish SPUD was on the board right now he was part of 85 Gunsmoke team and the first Competitions leading up to GUNSMOKE were called
GUNPOWDER" competitions.
I have pictures of the 85 team flying off the wing of a KC-10 which we were taking to NTC a total of 12 A-10's 6 on each wing over the Plains.

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!




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I Do! I Do! <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"If breathing wasn't a natural act, you would have been dead along time ago"!
Gary Chandler, Old Friend & High School Teacher

OK, us patch collectors are curious, were there any patches made for these early competitions?? Anyone have one, or a pic of one? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Cheers! M2

I'm trying to get the EX to cough up some of those early patches,I do have some MINT 23rd CRS patches plus MINT TAC& 23rd TFW patches Subdued.I did get a 76TH Subduded patch Mint back along with my PACAF and MAC patches.
I know where the 23RD AGS and 23rd EMS patches are but havent gotten a response yet from him.

But she has the early Competion patches,if anything maybe I can get her to put them on e-bay.

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I see where there was a GUNPOWDER gunnery meet hosted by 9AF back in 1982, but I have seen nothing of subsequent events. Can anyone provide any gouge on later GUNPOWDER competitions?

Cheers! M2

I wasnt there in 82 ,but after 85 there was one leading up to the GUNSMOKE before GW1.
2653,9186,2662,just to name a few were some of the 23rdTFW 's jets.
All our newer model VTR birds were used.
"Weaver" was one of our CrewChiefs,Capt Easton was the leader of maintance and SMSGT Ever's(?) NCOIC just to name some of the others.
But they had 2 meets One was "GUNPOWDER" and then the BIG dance
"GUNSMOKE".

I got 0166 from SPUD in 85 because of GUNSMOKE I was first on 2653 and then we "SWAPPED" aircraft.

Goose


LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I got to the 75th at England in January of '83.
I have held off commenting as I dont remember for sure when it all started with the Powder Puff, Gun Powder, and Gun SMoke stuff.
But I thought we had a team for like 2 of the years I was there? I was thinking 84 & 85. because we went TDY to the Twin Bases in May of 83 and that was our big thing that year.

I was thinking 84 & 85 because I think the Demo Team also started in 85 for us? Crew Chief on the 1st one was Ssgt Les "Arma" Dillow, another great guy from Illinois!

"If breathing wasn't a natural act, you would have been dead along time ago"!
Gary Chandler, Old Friend & High School Teacher

Hogsnort,

Hey first "Torny" needs your address.
Ok now down to the GUNSMOKE STUFF

There was a Team in 85 because thats how I got to Crew 0166 plus I have pictures of the team going to Nellis AFB while we were heading to NTC.

There was a meet before 85 because "WAAAAAAAAAANICKY" Had a meet Patch on when I got there in 4/85 you were authorized to wear the
"Patch" for a year "AFTER" the meet was over.So your looking 82-84
time frame.
I have/had a copy of a Japanese Model Magazine around here somewhere I hope,I was in Japan that fall and bought a copy in 1983 that showed the GUNSMOKE TEAM.
That magazine was the driving force when I had the chance to leave MAC I wanted A-10's at England AFB.

I havent heard from "SPUD" since the Hurricane he's working on the OIL RIG's.

Rayboy wheres he at? He is a A-10 old timer he'd know.

Goose

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Gunsmokes were held in the fall of the odd years, William Tells were held in the even years.

The last traditional Gunsmoke (turkey shoot, pure gunnery) was the 1991 meet that Baltimore won and a guy from KC was Top Gun. After that, they put in all kinds of other BS so the non-gunner LGB stealth types could play...hence Gunjoke was born. The last couple of meets were "composite force" mission composed of teams different types of aircraft playing for their numbered air forces.

All so the Hogs couldn't win it again.

The 1991 victory went a long way to keeping the Hog alive and securing funding for the LASTE system.

Coach

Baltimore won in 1991 BECAUSE of the LASTE system. Prior to that, the Hawgs couldn't keep up with the Vipers. And because the Hogs won in 91, they did change the rules so that the "pretty" jets would win. Damn shame politics plays a part in all this......

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\"There is no right way to do the wrong thing\"